Ultra Accurate Barrels

Barrel/Cartridge Reviews
By The Folks Who Use Them

The Barrel

A year or so ago I got a 'Custom' Contender barrel in 25-35 Cal. A Glossy little 14" Bull, I was looking forward to working up a tack driving load for it and adding it to my collection of Bbls/Calibers based on the 30-30 case. Now, some people collect Barrels regardless of how they shoot. I don't know why, I think it is an ego thing, but they do. I have had my share of Barrels, yes indeed, both Factory and various Custom. But, the number of Barrels that were actually Accurate enough to keep number about six (6).
The 30-30 case is my deal, I like those 'old' calibers and if they were as accurate back then as some claim then I don't know why they shouldn't be accurate today. That and the fact that I seem to have a never ending supply of 30-30 brass keeps me interested, and shooting.

Once I had gathered up a bunch of different bullets and powders, I assembled some loads and off to the range I went.
Initial results with my 'start loads' were impressive with bullets 75-90gr. Not a tack driver but the potential was there with inch or so groups.
Now with 25 rnds. of fired brass I headed back to the bench to 'load some more'.

Now, why I didn't see the flaw in this chamber sooner I could offer one of many excuses but won't.
After running my fired cases thru the tumbler and resizing I check to make sure all will chamber ok and, to see if any trimming is required. It was at this point I discovered the 'flutes' in the chamber. Caused by a chattering reamer I've been told, I looked over my fired cases carefully and could just about line them up in the order they were fired. The first 5-6 were ok and then the indentions started forming on the cases progressively deeper to a point where the case would not chamber unless it was turned until the 'flutes lined up in the chamber and the case dropped in.

Now things like this don't get me too excited. Fact I found it kind of amusing. So, instead of calling the company in question and griping I simply called, explained the flaw, and arranged to send the Bbl. back. No questions, No Problem. Total turn around time was about ten days- two weeks, and I believe about this time I had received the OTT 17 HMR Match Bbl. for review. So I wasn't going without.

Upon receipt of the new bbl. I inspected it to make sure that it was INDEED a new bbl.
It was, the chamber looked to be perfectly smooth and I was once again pleased.
An afternoon at the bench assembling 25 more new rounds and I was ready to try this again.

Needless to say I had a short stay at the range. Firing 10 shots resulted in the same good groups as before and, like before, the brass started showing signs of a fluted chamber. Firing 5 more rounds confirmed that it was INDEED getting progressively worse and with much disgust, I packed the whole mess up and went back home, swearing I would never deal with this company again. I haven't, And I won't.

The Cure

Mike S. over at On Target Tech. is one of many good people I have met thru the internet. I have never met this gentleman face to face but, have the utmost respect and trust in him. A 'New Kid' on the T/C Block you won't have to talk to him very long to realize that he knows what he's doing and where he wants to go. He offers a professional integrity that is sorely lacking in this business and it is refreshing to do business with someone who puts the customers needs/wants up front.

I explained my dilemma to him during one of our early morning 'coffee chats' and mentioned that I had run once-fired 30-30 brass thru the 25-35 dies in an attempt to find a cheap supply of brass but, to no avail. It formed fine, however it was just a bit to thick overall to fit the chamber.
After a little measuring Mike decided we could try and 'poke' that chamber out a little to accept the thicker 30-30 brass, after it had been run thru the FL 25-35 dies and possibly clean up the chamber to eliminate those 'flutes.
No guarentee it would work, but a simple option and since I really had nothing to lose I packed up the Bbl, dies and some brass and bullets and sent the whole mess east to O.T.T.

Turn around time here was unimportant, I knew Mike had a heavy work load and informed him I was in no hurry what so ever as I had plenty of other projects going myself.
From what I have heard about 'other companies' turn around time, this bbl. still got back to me in a timely matter, alot faster than I expected.

The 'New' 25-35 Case.

Now the proof is in the pudding so they say and I sat down the same day this bbl. arrived and started forming once fired (30-30) brass to 25-35 thru my dies.
Forming is easy and straight forward, as long as you remember, Absolutley NO Lube on the case neck/shoulder area what-so-ever. Results of being a little sloppy will cost a piece of brass as it will cause the brass to wrinkle at the junction of the shoulder/neck area. (I've had the best luck applying Lee Lube with my finger, starting at the base and going about 1/2 way up the case.) Check the mouth for any dents as these will 'crimp' or fold when squeezing them down to .25 cal. If you are using the decapping assembly in your die put a little lube on a brush and run thru the mouths, again, being careful not to get any on the neck as it will cause a wrinkle. I've gotten in the habit of 'patching out' my die every 10 rnds or so to remove any build up of lube in the die. With the Bonanza Press this is an easy task as the die just snaps in and out.

Here's My routine for making 25-35 from 30-30 brass (1x fired)
1. Visually inspect case for imperfections,dents,dirt, splits etc.
2. Run thru 30-30 neck die. This decaps,smooths and straightens the neck for resizing.
3. Very small amount of lube. I put a dab of Lee Lube on my fore finger, pinch the base, 'spin' the case from the base about 1/2 way up the case.
4.With the decap, expander assembly removed, I run the case thru my 25-35 die.
5. After all the cases have been formed I put the decap assembly back in the die and then run the mouths over the expander ball. Put in the Tumbler and..
6. Tumble for 45 min. to an hour.
7. Take brass out of tumbler and make sure all the media is out of cases.
8. Measure cases and trim if nessasary. In this case I trimmed all the brass to 2.033
9. Run brass thru the RCBS Prep Mate which I have set up to..
9-1 Square primer pocket
9-2 Debur inside mouth
9-3 Debur Outside mouth
9-4 Debur flashhole
9-5 Brush it up with a neck brush.

For a comparison chart on the basic measurements of the cases CLICK HERE

Hand Loading and Testing

There are several Powders suitable for the 25-35 aka 25/30-30 and we haven't tried them all. To simplify this First Test H4895 was used in all loads as were Winchester Large Rifle Primers. At the bottom of the page here we've listed a chart with the Velocity, Extreme Spread and Standard Deviation for ten(10) shots of each load tested along with the best groups produced out of ten shots, two(2) five(5) shot groups at 100yds With the exception of the 100gr. bullets which did not fair well accuracy wise in our initial test firing. We 'reshot' this load for velocity data only. We will update the load data as diffrent powder combinations are tried.

NOTE:Test Day at the range was perfect weather wise. Our usual testing is done at 50, 100 and 200yds However, this is a public range and the traffic ei; the number of shooters on the range this day was considerable for a week day, lot of guys coming out to site in thier deer guns as the season opens soon here. Out of courtesy to our fellow shooters we just sat up targets on the 100 yd marker for this test, that way we didn't have to keep asking everyone to cease fire while we shagged targets. Once deer season opens and things settle down abit we'll go back out and resume our test with some diffrent loads out to the 200 yd. marker.

Load Data

Listed here are the various hand loads we used in our test of the 25/3030. None of these loads were considered Maximum in the limited amount of information we have re-guarding this Caliber/Chamber, however, because the nature of this info and the way the world is today we have to print a disclaimer. HERE IS OURS

All loads used 1x fired 30-30 brass reformed thru an RCBS 25-35 sizing die.
All loads used a Winchester Large Rifle Primer.
All loads used H4895 Powder.
Velocity was determined from 10 shots fired over a C.E.D. Millinium Chronograph.
Two (2) Five (5) shot groups of each load were fired at 100yds.
Barrel was cleaned after each 5 shot group, during this test no copper fouling was detected at all, the only thing we pushed out the barrel was powder residue.
Groups were measured from the two (2) furthest points and then one (1) caliber was Subtracted, in this case .257

Up Date 9-01-04

This is one of those calibers/ Bbls. that is just plain fun to shoot and has just enough quirks to keep it interesting.
On our initial test we failed to get a measurable group with 100gr. bullets. Since then we took the 2x7x Weaver off of it to use on the 17K. I put an old Tasco 6x AO (This scope is BEAT UP) on it and, went to the range to pop off the few 100 gr. loads we had left over. Well lo-n-behold, that day it decided to turn in some respectable groups. I don't remember the exact measurement but it was a WHOLE lot better than our first one.

Then, we aquired one of the old Contender manuals and it has load data for the 25-35 in it!! Takes a little of the guess and by golly out of this game which, pleases me to no end.

We loaded up the 5 loads listed above and took this out to shoot with the 17K. We used the IMR4064, 4350 because we had it. The other 2 powders listed were IMR 3031 and 4320. Being the cautious type that I am, we backed off the listed loads by 10% and, as you can see, our velocities were pretty anemic. In fact they didn't even match the listed velocities in the manual and they were tested thru a 10" tube.

And then there is that Hornady 100gr bullet turning in the best performance. We laughed at the 75 grainers because if we had measured the group it would have been about 10 inches! I could see what was happening in the 1st 3-4 shots but said, Lets keep shooting so we at least get the chrony info, plus we only had the 10 rnds so, might as well get rid of them. Aiming at the same point for all 10 shots gave us an almost perfect horizontal line across the target about 10 inches long. So much for that load!! Fortunantly, the rest of the loads were OK. Had they done the same I would have thrown the scope away and tried again.

I had my money on the Nosler Ballistic Tips but that rascally ol' Hornady beat it. Comparing our velocities with the 1st test I think its a pretty safe bet that we can pump these up a little bit. We decided we would get some more Nosler 100 grainers and run a test between the Hornady and Nosler bullets. I'm thinking a pound of 3031 is in order too.
Stay Tuned!

End Results

Mike over at O.T.T. basicly took a tent stake,(unless you wanted a conversation piece which the 'fluted' chamber was) and turned it into a respectable shooter. Brass is easy to form and loading is straight forward. That and the fact we can now use 30-30 brass instead of having to buy the spendier 25-35 brass makes this barrel a whole lot better than orginally manufactured. I'm going to have a carbine length bbl with this same chamber made up this winter.
Our initial tests fireforming brass showed no signs of the original chamber and everything is in line with the bore. The 100 gr. bullets kind of stumped us, groups with the 75gr, 90gr, and 117gr bullets were respectable but the 100 grainers were spread out into 3 inches and not worth measuring. We still have a few left and will try some diffrent powder combos to see if groups improve. If Not? Well, I think we can live with the other loads ok...

So, if you got a funny chamber or a dog of a shooter, consider sending it to On Target Technologies for a re-work before pawning it off on someone else. You just might find you have a 'diamond in the rough'.
This caliber is fun to shoot and If your intrested in this chambering or something similar I'm sure Mike can do one up for you. One thing I'll guarantee here, if you get a barrel of any caliber you can be sure it will shoot, and shoot well.